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John J. Austrian
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crazrick
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 Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:58 am Post subject: |
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ok, ok, I yield... and jump on the cowboy vs zombie bandwagon:
GRINDING ZOMBIES TO DUST-- to soothe a young and troubled single mother in the wild west, a grieving gun-slinging gambler rustles up his ninja pals to save her precocious daughter from the child's unfit vengeful ex-con father... and his army of flesh-eating zombies!
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fletch137
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Joined: 09 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Strange story, John. Boot Hill itself was inspired by a Brom painting of a Confederate soldier zombie I saw on the cover of a White Wolf roleplaying book many years ago. It turns out it was that same illustration that inspired the creators of Deadlands to make their Weird West game.
Small world, right?
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Mike Rinaldi
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| The new four quadrant film: zombies, vampires, pirates, ninjas.
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crazrick
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| Rachel T. wrote: | | Rick, GS still needs one tight theme. Right now, there isn't a clear one. |
you mean the theme of recovery isn't clear in the idea that the gambler must recover from years of self-pity and grief which have turned him into a bit of a cold, calculating and selfish sort, while the mom must recover from her own selfish addiction to meth, both in order to present a united front against the recovering ex-con father of the child?
hmmmm...
how to clarify in one sentence?
GRINDING STARDUST-- On his way to the World Series of Poker, a long-grieving widower-turned-greedy-gambler is reluctantly recruited by a recently-recovered addict to protect her perpetually-precocious daughter from the child's violently-vengeful ex-con father.
that's longer, but does it better hint at all the various stages of grief, rehab and recovery each character must endure?
guy loses wife, gives up on love, focuses on money (for love or money = the basis for most any story, right?) he was/is grieving, but turns his grief toward greed instead, k?
meth-addict girl loses daughter while she goes to rehab and the child's father goes to prison, focuses on rehab and recovery to keep daughter from foster care, redoubles her efforts when her ex-con ex is released and cleans up in order to wrest custody of the kid from her
the child has to recover from being abandoned by her criminal-minded parents, in order to have 'a normal life' with one of them, or end up a ward of the state
guy has to find it in his heart to care about anyone else enough to help girl keep her daughter from the ex-con father; girl has to trust a new guy, and child has to deal with the possibility that everyone might be forced from her life again before it's all over, but she's young and bubbly so she's the glue that hold the whole story together...
or something...
grief, rehab, recovery shared by two people (or more) = Rites of Passage + Buddy Love possibilities, with the added irony of a recovering addict recruiting a compulsive gambler to save a child from a convicted drug dealer...
and I'm hijacking the thread...
guess I'll stick with WICCAN GAMES this time
thanks!
write on!
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John J. Austrian
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crazrick
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: |
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the curse makes every man (and a few lesbians  ) she makes eye contact with be instantly smitten, and the more time passes, the more obsessive her victims become, until they end up stalking her relentlessly...
and the cure is to be kissed by one who sees her for who she is and loves her truly regardless the curse.
She just wants to be liked, admired, accepted, loved, etc... but she's young and doesn't know how to go about earnign those sorts of things, so she hides behind Goth dress, make-up and attitude while wishing she was something special...
how to squeeze that in?
I call her immature, that covers all the teeny-bop angst, self-esteem and acceptance issues in one word, I hint at her use of magic, which alerts the Warlock to her powers and untapped potential; she resists him, so he curses her, which forces her to seek out dark magic aid to break the curse and draws him to her for the final confrontation
WICCAN GAMES
GENRE: OOTB (FANTASY)
LOGLINE: an immature witch-- cursed to attract any and every man who makes eye contact-- must find true love, sealed with a kiss, or lose heart and soul to a willful Warlock
better?
worse?
shall I stick to knitting??
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fletch137
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to go with your initial logline for Wiccan Games. There's something about the causality of her bringing the curse on herself that really sells it. The second version feels more passive and doesn't demonstrate how she really does cause all of her own problems.
As for Grinding Stardust, I'm going to initiate some painful detail extraction, so stand by for the agony. Basically, I'm thinking a lot of the words filling up your logline aren't as critical as you think they are. Sure his backstory as a grieving-widower-turned-heartless-gambler is key to the character, but take a second look and decide if it really is important to your story. Secondly, I feel you've put your gambler hero in a passive role and you should take steps to put more decisions in his hands.
This is kind of what I'm thinking of:
| Quote: | | A greedy gambler finds his chance at redemption when he chooses to help a desperate mother kick her addictions and keep her daughter from the custody of the child’s convict father. |
If there are aspects I'm missing, elements that *are* important to the story that I'm glossing over, feel free to stick them in, but my advice is to really scrutinize them to make sure they are part of the core story.
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crazrick
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| fletch137 wrote: | I'm going to go with your initial logline for Wiccan Games. There's something about the causality of her bringing the curse on herself that really sells it. The second version feels more passive and doesn't demonstrate how she really does cause all of her own problems.
As for Grinding Stardust, I'm going to initiate some painful detail extraction, so stand by for the agony. Basically, I'm thinking a lot of the words filling up your logline aren't as critical as you think they are. Sure his backstory as a grieving-widower-turned-heartless-gambler is key to the character, but take a second look and decide if it really is important to your story. Secondly, I feel you've put your gambler hero in a passive role and you should take steps to put more decisions in his hands.
This is kind of what I'm thinking of:
| Quote: | | A greedy gambler finds his chance at redemption when he chooses to help a desperate mother kick her addictions and keep her daughter from the custody of the child’s convict father. |
If there are aspects I'm missing, elements that *are* important to the story that I'm glossing over, feel free to stick them in, but my advice is to really scrutinize them to make sure they are part of the core story. |
GS is my dream/nightmare pet project, I drag it out, kick it in the junk every year; it's become a twisted two-hander, so the levels of passivity vs causality bog the beast down...
the gambler doesn't care about anyone any more, just wants to play 'the big game' before he fades into obscurity and oblivion; the addict is so used to only caring about her own selfish addiction, she's having a time figuring how to stay clean and raise the child; the child magically bonds with the gambler, like kids sometimes do... so, gambler needs the kid, addict needs the gambler, kid needs them both, and all the activity vs passivity flips between each of them to drive the story... it's a twisted almost-three-hander most of the time I can't keep it straight who's running the thing. But, in the end, it works, even if nobody but me (and sometimes 1 other person, maybe) ever reaches the end...
ah well, some day, someone might read it and see some magic.
maybe...
write on!
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fletch137
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Why does the gambler need the kid? *We* know it's to unshrivel his heart, but why does *he* think he needs the kid?
Is this script already written?
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Rachel T.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I phrased it badly, Rick, and I appologize for the confusion. I think what I was trying to get at (with the wrong words) was that there's too much going on:
He's a cold-hearted gambler who has to recover. OK, so this should be a poker movie where the gambler learns there's more to life than winning the next Big Game. It could be as comic as Maverick, or more serious.
She's a recovering meth addict who wants to keep custody of her daughter. That sounds like a dark and twisted drama where the mom spirals through rehab, backsliding into her addictions, and finally finding the courage to stick to sobriety through her daughter's love of her, and her own love for her daughter. Something like 28 Days, but darker.
The daughter has been kidnapped by her vengeful ex-con father - but that's every "I divorced my louse of an ex and remarried and now he stole my kid to retaliate" cop thriller ever made.
These pieces don't go together. I know you want them to, but there's a reason people set this script down and don't finish it. It's too much. I'm sorry.
One idea per script. Pick it. Stick to it.
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crazrick
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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the kid gets to him, that's all; he'll say he doesn't need anyone, of course... he won't actively pursue or admit to any attraction for the woman, but her kid is innocent and sweet and all cutsie-cute too much for him to resist; he admires the mom's determination to live better and give whatever better life for her kid, but he's unwilling to woo her, so he latches on to the kid who got to him. The Mom respects his space and his simple-if-selfish desire to do one 'big thing' even if it's not to win all the money in the world by playing cards; he has a dream, she has a dream, they both want to accomplish their dreams on their own, but the kid needs them both in the end, and they don't really want to be all alone when they accomplish their dreams, so they come together to work it all out.
not only is the script written, but re-re-re-re-re-re... re-written...
ya, that's why I hate it too...
write on!
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crazrick
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Rachel T. wrote: | I phrased it badly, Rick, and I appologize for the confusion. I think what I was trying to get at (with the wrong words) was that there's too much going on:
He's a cold-hearted gambler who has to recover. OK, so this should be a poker movie where the gambler learns there's more to life than winning the next Big Game. It could be as comic as Maverick, or more serious.
She's a recovering meth addict who wants to keep custody of her daughter. That sounds like a dark and twisted drama where the mom spirals through rehab, backsliding into her addictions, and finally finding the courage to stick to sobriety through her daughter's love of her, and her own love for her daughter. Something like 28 Days, but darker.
The daughter has been kidnapped by her vengeful ex-con father - but that's every "I divorced my louse of an ex and remarried and now he stole my kid to retaliate" cop thriller ever made.
These pieces don't go together. I know you want them to, but there's a reason people set this script down and don't finish it. It's too much. I'm sorry.
One idea per script. Pick it. Stick to it. |
I got it, Rachel! THANKS!
the single, all-encompassing idea that ties these stories together is in the Institutionalized Genre-- the Group is middle-class, working class Americana, the choices these characters make are an effort to rise up from the no-class, low-class working-class middle and be something 'bigger' for themselves and for the people they love, which puts them at odds with those people and with the rest of the 'group' who are content to be middle-class working stiffs and leads to sacrifices from these individuals to rise above, fall back into the group, or die trying to escape...
The gambler pokers his way out, but, being raised as no-class middle class working class, he struggles with the 'math,' so is content to break even most of the time;
the addict smokes her way out, recovers and wants to earn a better way out, better than her convict ex, not so risky as the gambler, so she struggles with the 'meth' of it;
the ex-con chokes his way out, to gain wealth and power the old fashioned way-- TAKE IT! so, he struggles with the 'myth' of power, wealth being something that can be taken by force, rather than earned.
So, a poker, a smoker and a choker using Math, Meth and Myth pit these individuals against the group of middle-class Americana and against each other, and they each sacrifice something in chasing the dream to be something bigger than middle-class bums.
The gambler sacrifices the big money cash game to save the girl, secure his modest place amongst the group, with a new family (join the group)
the addict gives up meth, puts her middle-class job at risk to join the gambler in chasing his big money, but is content to return to the group with her daughter when the gambler gives up his dream to save the girl, goes back to college to earn a different way out (weak attempt to 'destroy' the group or the stygma attached to low-class no-class middle class Americana, that they are stuck there.. she will earn her way out by 'learning' her way out)
the ex-con can't escape, he wants the family, the money, the power, everything he can get from the rest of the group, so, unwilling and unable to change, his story doesn't end well... (death, to round out the join, destroy or die trifecta of possibilities offered to the I-genre peeps)
and, since the two are brought together in the end, and still have a tingle of desire for something bigger and better some how, some way, some day, the story ends with some promises to start over, try again next year, etc etc...
and life goes on in middle-class working class Americana...
so the stories of the gambler, the addict, the ex-con and the innocent child do fit together in exactly this way
I consider it a compliment that my movie feels same but different from a movie starring Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster and James Coburn as well as one starring Sandra Bullock and Vigo Mortensen, not to mention every Lifetime and Oxygen netowrk movie ever made!! way to inspire hope! YAY! WOO!
but, as I say, I suck at selling this beast proper and you are most likely right that the story itself suffers because I suck as bad at selling it in 110 pages as in a logline or 1-page synopsis
the trouble is, when I pitch it as a 'group/family' story, someone/everyone immediately insists it must be led by a single protagonist, and they make further demands that it must be the poker player's story, when the addict and the ex-con have nearly equal stake in the story... in plain terms, it's the child's story of how her fractured family was made whole again, but to focus on her days at daycare while the real meaty stuff goes on with her blissfully oblivious would really incite readers' wrath, I bet!!
so, I try to pitch it as the addict's story, while it's led by the gambler mostly, when it's really the child's story of how she got a family...
and I go thru this cycle every year... and always ends the same unreadable mess!
but, some day, it's going to be GOLDEN!
thanks tho! I'll go back to my knitting now...
write on!
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Rachel T.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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I'm glad you figured out what the genre really is! And what the nugget at the heart of the story is:
| crazrick wrote: | | ...the single, all-encompassing idea that ties these stories together is in the Institutionalized Genre-- the Group is middle-class, working class Americana, the choices these characters make are an effort to rise up from the no-class, low-class working-class middle and be something 'bigger' for themselves and for the people they love, which puts them at odds with those people and with the rest of the 'group' who are content to be middle-class working stiffs and leads to sacrifices from these individuals to rise above, fall back into the group, or die trying to escape... |
What's missing now are the characters that try to "keep them in their places" - the ones who represent the big, impersonal Institution that gives the genre its name.
CAn you think of some "umbrella" Institution that would cover them all? M*A*S*H was set in the army, but particularly they were all doctors. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest was in a hospital, but specifically a mental hospital, so they were all either patients or doctors. (I'm not real familiar with the Institutional genre, so I don't know of any other examples to give you.) I think if you can find some similar umbrella to put them under - even the evil ex - that will really help tie your story together and give it a coherence.
| crazrick wrote: | | ...the trouble is, when I pitch it as a 'group/family' story, someone/everyone immediately insists it must be led by a single protagonist, |
So stop pitching it as a "group/family story"! In plain terms, it's far too dark - you're writing an ensemble piece a la Crash - which is a whole 'nother beast completely.
| crazrick wrote: | | ...it's the child's story of how her fractured family was made whole again |
There you go - the child embodies the theme, and is probably the catalyst as well. In chemical terms, a catalyst is something which forces other chemicals to react, but it may not actually react itself. She can easily cause action in others, simply by being her sweet self. Others react to her, and around her, but virtually nothing needs to be told from her viewpoint. In fact, it would be better if it isn't. She probably doesn't change at all from beginning to end, and static characters are the least interesting, audience-wise.
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Mike Rinaldi
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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My official submission:
In the Heat of the Dead of Night
A Southern town divided by racism, intolerance, and William Faulkner, must come together to survive an invasion of the walking dead and the only man who can unite them is a compulsive necrophiliac.
Longer than 25 words, but well below the limit of 50 for the contest. I think the cat's in the bag.
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The zombie western is becoming it's own subgenre, so it'll be interesting to see how the different 
