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matthewp
Kitten
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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Carl Thoren
Leopard
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 39
Location: Beijing
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 Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Some intriguing ideas here. I have to admit I'm biased against vampires and psychic abilities, though: they don't exist and have been used to death. Plus, you don't need them to have a good story.
Not sure why vampires are necessary in your first concept. A fellow nurse killing patients would be monster enough. Especially if that fellow nurse was the main characters child or parent.
A young girl trying to stop gang violence is real and gripping -- giving her psychic abilities is a distraction and makes the story totally fake for me. Did you ever see a movie called Fresh? It's a wonderful film about a smart boy who uses his chess skills to outwit the drug dealers and gang members around him. It's brains vs. brawn.
As for the cop protecting the child, I was wondering if it would be more unique if things were twisted around. A young policewoman has to protect a gangster's mother -- a nasty old coot, no doubt -- from the mob. You could call it Mother Issues.
Stories about young people in gangs seem to be the stories that really interest you, so I'd encourage you to focus on them. Seems to me you could combine concepts 4 and 5 into one script. There's something I love about #4. What if the four kids were nerdy, bookish teens? It makes their plight understandable and heartbreaking; they're underdogs in a world of Might Makes Right -- but if they're not careful they could end up just as bad as their enemies.
#6 is nice, but I think you have to make clear that the young man has to choose between his gang and his team. #7 also has to bring out a moral choice, I think; the rapper wants to win, but he has to choose between winning by bribes or winning by talent. I think "improve their chances" might be too weak -- he has to win if he does the bribe. For some reason, I imagine your rapper might not be the best. If he makes the moral decision not to bribe his way to the top, then he's decided not to take short cuts in his life any more, and is going to practice and work hard to succeed on his merits.
I think you have some really strong ideas here, especially the gang-related ones. I hope you work on the concepts some more and then re-do your loglines. Good luck!
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gc_bevan
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 403
Location: Canyon Country, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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My feedback on each concept:
1. Is the girlfriend's death related to vampires? I'm a vampire movie fan, and kind of like this logline - vampire-run blood banks have been overdone, but preying on the helpless in a hospital seems relatively fresh. To amp it up, maybe you could elaborate on the vampire's plans for the hospital, set the movie in the graveyard shift, and make the girlfriend come in with a minor complaint.
2. So why is the assassin targeting the girl? Clarifying the stakes would make this more engaging. Also, review similar movies (Men In Black 2, Escape to Witch Mountain) to make sure you've got a unique hook.
3. Does the girl do something special to receive the gift, or the brother? Or are the impending murders special in some way? This feels like something is missing, but I don't know what it is.
4. I like the setup (forming the gang), but suggest clarifying "the dark and violent lifestyle they've created." Who blocks their escape from gang life?
5. Interesting, but needs much more detail. Who are the four young people - newly jobless college grads, heroin addicts, etc.? What do they do to survive - turn to prostitution, theft, pan-handling etc.? You seem to be planning several things, but what is their general trajectory? Finally, what is special about being a month before Christmas? It's cold, but do they get relief somehow if they last that long?
6. I like this one! For the logline, how about: After gang life kills his older brother, a vulnerable teenage boy struggles against his brother's fate with the help of an ex-con soccer coach.
7. I'm not clear on this concept. How does extra money help win a contest? Are they bribing the judges, buying better instruments, hiring better band-mates, doing a Villi Manilli?
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Mike Rinaldi
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Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| What I like about #1 (the one that grabbed me the most) is that you're implying there may not be vampires. We don't know if what she sees is real, or perhaps she isn't seeing what she thinks she sees. So it's not necessarily a vampire movie. I'm at least curious enough to see if you're going for a more mythological approach for the vampires or a clinical form of vampirism.
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Mike Rinaldi
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Carl Thoren wrote: | | Some intriguing ideas here. I have to admit I'm biased against vampires and psychic abilities, though: they don't exist and have been used to death. Plus, you don't need them to have a good story. |
Carl, is it possible that your perspective is a bit oversimplified?
I definitely have my biases, so I'm not one to throw the first stone. I'm biased against insults to my intelligence, like a movie about teens in Kansas who surf every day. A while back, someone posted a really cool idea for a supernatural action movie and I was really digging it up until he jumped the shark by proposing Satan and Lucifer be two separate, rival characters. That kind of stuff makes me smack myself in the head.
If you're tired of unoriginal vampire and psychic stories, I'm with you there. But I want to challenge you a bit on the idea of what is and isn't real. Isn't part of being a great storyteller knowing exactly at what point you can get away with suspending disbelief? That is one of the most fundamental aspects of our craft. Sure, a 1,000 year old count who turns into a bat isn't real. But what about people who really do drink blood because of bizarre religious beliefs or even more bizarre medical disorders?
A personal example. I'm biased against zombie movies, even though I'm writing one. Generally, I find them gross, tasteless, and boring. It's one of the most unimaginative genres, in my opinion. It's also a further stretch of the imagination than I am comfortable with... if you're talking about the flesh-eating undead. But if you wrote a movie about Haitian zombiism-- which is a very intriguing and real phenomenon-- you might hook me.
Another example is Lovecraft's short story, "The Outsider." At face value, you may be turned off by the impossible story of a recluse who attempts to reconnect with society only to discover he's a rotting corpse. But if you know something of Lovecraft's lifelong depression, the story is a fascinating and vivid metaphor for his alienation by depicting a character who is literally dead to the world.
I just want to encourage you, writer to writer, to think through the motives for the biases that all of us have and make sure that they aren't hampering your writing or reading/watching experiences.
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Carl Thoren
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Joined: 17 May 2009
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Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, what I'm tired of is clichés -- especially clichés used in a trite and unoriginal manner. A large category, unfortunately. But if someone comes up with a truly great and original and primal story, then I'm going to get into it -- even if it's a story about vampires, zombies, mentally-disturbed psychologists, the Italian mafia, hit-men, spies, time travel, or whatever.
If someone really loves the vampire genre, then of course they should write a vampire story. My knee-jerk reaction might be that I don't like vampire stories -- but if they write a compelling logline, take me into a dynamic and rich vampire world that I never would have imagined, or give me some truly unique twist, then I'll love the story.
Like with the Lovecraft story you mention, which sounds wonderful. From what you say, he turns every cliché upside down, and creates a whole new metaphor that is fresh, original, and surprising. That's what I love as a writer.
One thing I've observed about my fellow beginning screenwriters is that they frequently come up with interesting and unique story worlds -- story worlds inherently rich with drama and primal emotions, that I'd love to get into. That everyone would love to get into. But then they create plots that have to do with losing at cards in Vegas, hit men, zombies, etc. And then I feel so disappointed, and really feel the loss of a potentially wonderful story. I would love to see more stories that grow naturally out of the characters and inherent drama of those fascinating story worlds. (I'd love to give examples here, but I'm not sure that would be appropriate.)
So for me, there's an incredibly high bar for stories about vampires, precognition, etc. -- and I suspect for a lot of potential script readers and producers, too. Unless a vampire concept makes me immediately gasp "oh my god!" with it's stunning cleverness, I'm going to be critical. In this situation, Matthew presented 7 ideas, looking for responses (presumably because he's trying to figure out which concepts are the strongest, and which one he wants to write), so I gave my reaction -- for what it's worth. I was glad GC had an opposite reaction, because she does like the vampire genre.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughtful reaction to my post. I probably need to be more careful in how I respond. I can love any kind of story, as long as it's done well, and I'd hate to nip any potentially great story in the bud.
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