Introduction and question re: novels

lucia · Kitten Joined: 27 Oct 2009 Posts: 2

Hi! I'm new to the forum. Just learned about Blake and was very saddened by what was news to me. I admired his writing and his ideas, and really would have liked to know him, even via internet.
I have a question, and didn't find anything in the forum search showing it had been discussed previously, so I'd like to ask whether anyone here has ever translated Blake's screenplay beat points to the corresponding pages of a novel, and, if so, what those corresponding pages might be.
Would this, in your opinion, make any novel more readable? Or is this sort of progression suited specifically to a screenplay? Is there a school of thought about this sort of thing, where the pros and cons have already been hashed over? (and which I have failed miserably to find?)
Any discussion will be welcome!
Lucia

quade · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: Story telling

I think story telling is story telling across a wide variety of medium. The basics of Blake's work can be applied across a wide spectrum of stories or groups of stories. I believe it does not negate the theories outlined by others either, but rather can be used as another layer of tools and understanding about what makes stories work.

That said, films are a different beast than novels. Novels are not constrained to 110 pages nor are they constrained by, for the most part, third person perspective. Novels can directly tell the reader how a character feels about something. There's no way to do that in a script. It has to be shown by the character's actions.

I'd say read Save the Cat for the ideas about story telling and use its templates of genres as a tool for laying out your story, but make your novel a novel and use all the tools available to novel writers.

Blueberries · Tiger Joined: 03 Mar 2009 Posts: 119

Definitely, novels are novels and screenplays are screenplays. Having said that...

Blake's principles apply to every story under the sun, from a screenplay to "Crime and Punishment", to the Odyssey. I think Blake even taught a group of romance writers once, not to mention all those folks in China...

Yes, there is a school of thought: It's called "Sell your work!". Seriously now, Blake took all the principles of telling a good story, all the tried and true patterns which go ages back and were primarily discussed in Joseph Campbell's work, blah blah (you know the drill), and what Blake ingeniously did was to simplify and codify all those convoluted theories just for the sake of writers. He took all the mysticism and the bull** out of the equation, and gave writers a unique, crystal clear roadmap which enables us to satisfy the needs of the reader/audience/marketplace, and at the same time tell the stories we want to tell and have a blast. There are no cons, Lucia, it's a win/win situation.

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Mike Rinaldi · Liger Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 1810 Location: California

lucia · Kitten Joined: 27 Oct 2009 Posts: 2

Thanks to all who replied! I sent an e-mail off in search of the Seattle Romance Writers!
Lucy

Ralph Dobbins · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:47 pm Post subject:

Lucy,
Blake also presented his workshop to the Low Country Romance Writer's Association a couple of years ago.

I believe they are the Charleston (South Carolina) group on the Forum Index page. Only writers who attended that presentation are granted access to that section. However, you might try sending a PM to one of the two members who have posted there or simply contact the chapter via their website at: http://www.rwanational.org/cs/about_rwa/chapters_listing/us_chapters

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Rachel T. · Ocelot Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 768 Location: Michigan

As a novel writer, I can say that yes, Blake's beat sheet works for books. The question about page counts does pop up from time to time, and not just for longer things like books, but also for shorter movies, tv shows, and commercials.

The biggest thing to remember about the beats is that they are proportions - Catalyst needs to happen when you're only 10% of the way through the story, MidPoint is 50%, DarkNight of the Soul about 75%, etc.

In a 100 page screenplay, that means Catalyst will be on page 10, Midpoint on page 50, DN on page 75.

If you're writing a book, figure out about how long you want that book to be; we'll say 300 pages. So, the Catalyst should happen on page 30, the Midpoint on page 150, and the DN on page 225.

The 40 scene card thing trips people up, too. So, figure out how many pages, on average, it takes you to write one complete scene. Mine take about 5 pages. In a 300 page book, that means I need to plan on having 60 scene cards. Some scenes will be longer than 5 pages, of course, and some will be shorter, but it all evens out.

Don't overthink it. Very Happy

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Angelscrest · Kitten Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 1

Hi Lucia!

I am by no means an expert about writing, but I do believe there is a difference between storytelling for movies and storytelling for books.

In a film, the story must be conveyed visually, and in a shortened period of time. A novel has the luxury of taking its time introducing the main characters, and the author can reveal much about the hero through the use of inner dialogue, which is usually not practical for a film. In a darkened theater, if you spend too much time inside the head of your character, you will put your audience to sleep.

This is why the likability of your movie hero must be told through his actions, in a visual shorthand, such as the rescuing of a cat, or as in the case of Al Pachino in Sea of Love, letting a criminal go free because he has his son with him.

I think there are good techniques from filmmaking that can be applied to book writing, but as the author of a novel, you have fewer constraints than the screenwriter, who must fit the sceenplan into a specific number of pages.

--Angelscrest Smile

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Rachel T. · Ocelot Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 768 Location: Michigan

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