Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search Save the Cat Community Forum Index

Logline: Wild Rivers {MITH}

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Save the Cat Community Forum Index » Loglines & Beat Sheets
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Caden Pearson
Cat


Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:54 am    Post subject: Logline: Wild Rivers {MITH} Reply with quote #50047

Title: Wild Rivers

Logline: On the wild rivers of Cape York in northern Australia, a psychotic family of commercial fishermen stalks a family of holidaymakers.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
James Patrick Joyce
Liger


Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 1108

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Logline: Wild Rivers {MITH} Reply with quote #50049

Caden Pearson wrote:
Title: Wild Rivers

Logline: On the wild rivers of Cape York in northern Australia, a psychotic family of commercial fishermen stalks a family of holidaymakers.


Nice. You definitely give me an impression of the core story.

My main issue is that you've pitched the psychotic family as the protagonists. You just told me their story and left the vacationers as footnote.

Unless the psychos are the protagonists, which might require a tad more description, to make it clear that the logline isn't faulty.

I assume this is a slasher/torture porn type of movie?



_________________
“Bad artists always admire each other's work. They call it being large-minded and free from prejudice. ”
― Oscar Wilde
http://www.twoadverbs.com/logline.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Caden Pearson
Cat


Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: Logline: Wild Rivers {MITH} Reply with quote #50053

Caden Pearson wrote:
My main issue is that you've pitched the psychotic family as the protagonists. You just told me their story and left the vacationers as footnote.

Unless the psychos are the protagonists, which might require a tad more description, to make it clear that the logline isn't faulty.

I assume this is a slasher/torture porn type of movie?


Thanks for your notes. The family of holidaymakers would definitely be the protagonists, not the psychos. My concept has actually evolved since I posted this because I don't like torture porn personally.

New Logline:
On the run from police, a group of eco-warriors seek refuge on the wild rivers of Cape York in northern Australia, but find themselves hunted by the creatures they set free from a crocodile farm.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
James Patrick Joyce
Liger


Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 1108

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Logline: Wild Rivers {MITH} Reply with quote #50055

My first comment is one that I frequently make, now. Stick with one story idea and keep polishing the logline until it works.

I see lots of writers struggle with loglines and make the mistake of changing the story, to fix logline problems. The problem with that is that you just come up with a whole new slew of problems. Then the story gets changed, again, to fix those problems and you're back to square one, with another new set of issues.

Also, read the link in my signature. It's written by one of the "gatekeepers", a guy who evaluates loglines and screenplays for the largest talent agency in the world. People like Denzel Washington get scripts that were filtered through him. He knows whereof he speaks.

Caden Pearson wrote:
On the run from police, a group of eco-warriors seek refuge on the wild rivers of Cape York in northern Australia, but find themselves hunted by the creatures they set free from a crocodile farm.


Why are eco-warriors freeing animals? They should be off trying to protect some part of the land or sea or etc.. Usually its animal activists who do the animal freeing.

If they freed crocodiles, say that. Getting fancy with the language only clouds the issue. I'm not sure, now, whether they freed crocodiles or monsters and the confusion would immediately have me passing on the script.

If they freed monsters, then the logline needs a re-jigging, because I'm half-assuming a crocodile farm would only have captive crocodiles.

Is there a protagonist? Usually there is a single person, even in a group, who is the main character. Not always, but true group protags are rare.

Is this a water-borne adventure or a wilderness adventure where rivers are included? At the moment, anyone not aware of the jungle-like nature of this part of Australia is probably going to think this all takes place on water.



_________________
“Bad artists always admire each other's work. They call it being large-minded and free from prejudice. ”
― Oscar Wilde
http://www.twoadverbs.com/logline.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Caden Pearson
Cat


Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #50058

Quote:
My first comment is one that I frequently make, now. Stick with one story idea and keep polishing the logline until it works. I see lots of writers struggle with loglines and make the mistake of changing the story, to fix logline problems. The problem with that is that you just come up with a whole new slew of problems. Then the story gets changed, again, to fix those problems and you're back to square one, with another new set of issues.


I simply don't like torture porn. I don't want to make a logline work for a story I didn't really want to tell.

Quote:
Also, read the link in my signature. It's written by one of the "gatekeepers", a guy who evaluates loglines and screenplays for the largest talent agency in the world. People like Denzel Washington get scripts that were filtered through him. He knows whereof he speaks.


Thanks. I'll check it out at some point. For now, I'm using resources provides by Australian screen agencies and other sources.

Caden Pearson wrote:
On the run from police, a group of eco-warriors seek refuge on the wild rivers of Cape York in northern Australia, but find themselves hunted by the creatures they set free from a crocodile farm.


Quote:
Why are eco-warriors freeing animals? They should be off trying to protect some part of the land or sea or etc.. Usually its animal activists who do the animal freeing.


Perhaps saying animal activists is more clear. They call themselves eco-warriors hence the perentheses.

Quote:
If they freed crocodiles, say that. Getting fancy with the language only clouds the issue. I'm not sure, now, whether they freed crocodiles or monsters and the confusion would immediately have me passing on the script.


I felt like I shouldn't repeat the word crocodile so quickly. "... hunted by the crocodiles they freed from the crocodile farm." It's clearer but repetitive.

Quote:
Is there a protagonist? Usually there is a single person, even in a group, who is the main character. Not always, but true group protags are rare.


A protagonist has emerged now that I have beat the story out using Blake Snyder's BS2. She is a new member of the group who hasn't quite drunk the cool-aide.

Quote:
Is this a water-borne adventure or a wilderness adventure where rivers are included? At the moment, anyone not aware of the jungle-like nature of this part of Australia is probably going to think this all takes place on water.


Yes, water-borne becuase that is where crocs live.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
James Patrick Joyce
Liger


Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 1108

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #50062

Caden Pearson wrote:
I simply don't like torture porn. I don't want to make a logline work for a story I didn't really want to tell.


Cool. Although I must wonder why you constructed a logline for something you do not like and will not tell. But, cool. Stick with this one, then.

Focus on the point, not the details.

Caden Pearson wrote:
Thanks. I'll check it out at some point. For now, I'm using resources provides by Australian screen agencies and other sources.


Again, cool.

I'm assuming that you are only planning to approach Australian companies. For future reference, these are the kinds of things that are helpful to know, before offering advice.

If, on the other hand, you plan to approach the American market, you should rethink your priorities re: logline advice.

Caden Pearson wrote:

Perhaps saying animal activists is more clear. They call themselves eco-warriors hence the perentheses.


What parenthesis? And even if parenthesis were used, it wouldn't make sense:
"On the run from police, a group of (eco-warriors) seek refuge"


Caden Pearson wrote:
I felt like I shouldn't repeat the word crocodile so quickly. "... hunted by the crocodiles they freed from the crocodile farm." It's clearer but repetitive.


"hunted by crocodiles they freed from a farm" or "facility" or etc.. If you've freed crocodiles from a farm, then everyone will understand it wasn't a corn farm.

Caden Pearson wrote:

A protagonist has emerged now that I have beat the story out using Blake Snyder's BS2. She is a new member of the group who hasn't quite drunk the cool-aide.


Then the logline should now be rewritten to clearly identify the protagonist. When we read the logline, we should get a feel for the movie you would be writing. That means that we know who the "hero" is. (note: not their name. Loglines don't need names)

Caden Pearson wrote:
Yes, water-borne becuase that is where crocs live.


Oh.

So the vast majority of this movie is them in boats, paddling/powering away from crocodiles? I'm not sure what to expect, now. The logline (along with your "Yes") tells me that this is a movie about them fleeing down the river with crocodiles chasing them... which I don't quite get, since crocs aren't hunters, so much as ambush killers... but maybe I don't know enough about them.

However... is that right? Most of the movie is them racing down the river while the crocs chase them?



_________________
“Bad artists always admire each other's work. They call it being large-minded and free from prejudice. ”
― Oscar Wilde
http://www.twoadverbs.com/logline.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Caden Pearson
Cat


Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #50065

Crocs stalk and ambush, yes. That's how they operate.

My story changes the rules of the normal world somewhat to explores what might happen when hundreds of hundreds of crocodiles escape into a river. And on that day, this group is making their escape via that river.

There are plenty of opportunities for crocs to pick off the characters using their natural methods.

Something that would be established in the Setup is that a person would already be lucky to live 3 minutes in these waters, but now, on this day, possibly thousands of crocs are in those waters. Whereas there usually are maybe several dozen or more.

It is kind of Snakes on a Plane with crocodiles. I've been to a crocodile farm and seeing thousands of crocs in one body of water is terrifying. It wasn't even safe to be outside of the vehicle nearby to the farm. So to be on the water in small boats with them, I feel there will be plenty of opportunities for horror.

Quote:
I'm assuming that you are only planning to approach Australian companies.


Yes, I've written this to submit to a development workshop hosted by an Australian screen agency and an Australian broadcaster.

Quote:
So the vast majority of this movie is them in boats

The first half of Act 2 is all on boats. It takes place on and along the river, with stops on land to camp etc. The fun and games section had a lot of holes in it right now, which will be filled in during the workshop if it gets that far.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
RobbRoss
Liger


Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 1469

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #50068

Another good start (with the second log).

Quote:
explores what might happen when hundreds of hundreds of crocodiles escape into a river.


That's the hook so put it in the logline!

However, once they reach a shore, why do they camp there instead of moving inland where they'd be free? Or does the geography of this river (at least, part of it) infer to those familiar with it that the only freedom is reaching x via the water?

Whether eco-warriors or animal activists, they sound like good people and the story is a horror/MITH where at least one should have some kind of Sin and ideally related to the threat. The logline doesn't have to state it, but keep it in mind for the beat sheet. Even then, would it be better if most of the characters are sinful and one or two are "good"? This way, there's fun in seeing the bad people get chomped.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Caden Pearson
Cat


Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #50072

Again, I appreciate your feedback.

RobbRoss wrote:

Quote:
explores what might happen when hundreds of hundreds of crocodiles escape into a river.


Quote:
That's the hook so put it in the logline!


Okay, thanks, I will re-work the logline.

Quote:
However, once they reach a shore, why do they camp there instead of moving inland where they'd be free? Or does the geography of this river (at least, part of it) infer to those familiar with it that the only freedom is reaching x via the water?


I will establish the geography of the river in the Opening Image and the Setup. There is nothing but jungle for hundreds of miles in this remote part of the world, and to ensure they can evade police they must travel up the river to a designated extraction point. Imagine the film Anaconda: there's nowhere to go.

Quote:
Whether eco-warriors or animal activists, they sound like good people and the story is a horror/MITH where at least one should have some kind of Sin and ideally related to the threat. The logline doesn't have to state it, but keep it in mind for the beat sheet. Even then, would it be better if most of the characters are sinful and one or two are "good"? This way, there's fun in seeing the bad people get chomped


In my film, they are an extremist group who believe humans are a pox and the Earth has activated individual people - and animals - to go forth and eradicate these pathogenic humans like 'white blood cells.' So, whether they are eco-warrior or eco-terrorists is the argument my film will explore.

Among their group is a new member, my protagonist, who was conscripted by her cousin to join the team. She's a conservationist but is more moderate. The B-story of my film will be between her and the group's leader and will explore this theme.

Their sin is their hypocrisy. They mock the beliefs of others while sticking dogmatically to their own. My protagonist is with them but ultimately decides to believe in humanity.

Their sin is brought home when a child is killed by a croc in the whiff of death scene.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Caden Pearson
Cat


Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #50073

Updated logline:

1. An animal rights activist and her friends release thousands of crocodiles from a farm into the wild rivers of northern Australia, but find themselves hunted by the crocodiles they set free while waiting for extraction on a river island deep within the jungle.

2. An animal rights activist and her friends release thousands of crocodiles from a farm into the wild rivers of northern Australia, but find themselves hunted by the crocodiles they set free while fleeing up the river to their extraction point.

3. An animal rights activist and her friends await extraction on a river island deep within the Cape York jungle after sabotaging a nearby facility, releasing thousands of crocodiles into the rivers. But as the wet season rains fall the group’s chances for survival sink.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
James Patrick Joyce
Liger


Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 1108

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #50077

An Animal Activist and her friends become trapped and hunted by the thousands of crocodiles they freed from an isolated farm.



_________________
“Bad artists always admire each other's work. They call it being large-minded and free from prejudice. ”
― Oscar Wilde
http://www.twoadverbs.com/logline.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RobbRoss
Liger


Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 1469

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #50078

Quote:
Their sin is their hypocrisy. They mock the beliefs of others while sticking dogmatically to their own.


That's tame and the action already presents a Sin- going too far and hurting innocent people.

Quote:
to go forth and eradicate these pathogenic humans like 'white blood cells.' So, whether they are eco-warrior or eco-terrorists is the argument my film will explore.


There's no argument that they're terrorists or otherwise twisted! Tone them down a bit, at least the leader, and then there's a debate about how to help animals.


On the run from police, a naive animal rights activist and a group of eco-terrorists battle hundreds of crocodiles as they travel the river in two x boats towards an extraction point.

X is the type of boats (pilothouse, canoe). Might as well add this detail to help nail the danger.

Since this will be marketed to local people, the jungle and setting are clear from the titular river.

While there may be questions about warriors-terrorists in the script, the description in this logline feels sharper and offers more conflict with the protag. It also explains the police without having to get into the detail of freeing the crocs.

I assume Logline #3 is what happens at the end...they reach the little island at the end of Act II and then Act III is the final battle against the crocs (or against Angry Mama Croc) while they wait to be rescued, right?

If the logline mentions that these people are the ones who released the crocs into the river, then it raises the wrong kind of questions. Even in the script, were they not planning to travel by river to leave the area?

"Thousands" of crocs feels implausible and makes me think the group has better chances hiking through the jungle. Even hundreds do...why does a farm have so many? Is it better to have a more manageable number, like dozens?


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Caden Pearson
Cat


Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #50080

RobbRoss wrote:
Quote:
Their sin is their hypocrisy. They mock the beliefs of others while sticking dogmatically to their own.


That's tame and the action already presents a Sin- going too far and hurting innocent people.

Quote:
to go forth and eradicate these pathogenic humans like 'white blood cells.' So, whether they are eco-warrior or eco-terrorists is the argument my film will explore.


There's no argument that they're terrorists or otherwise twisted! Tone them down a bit, at least the leader, and then there's a debate about how to help animals.


On the run from police, a naive animal rights activist and a group of eco-terrorists battle hundreds of crocodiles as they travel the river in two x boats towards an extraction point.

X is the type of boats (pilothouse, canoe). Might as well add this detail to help nail the danger.

Since this will be marketed to local people, the jungle and setting are clear from the titular river.

While there may be questions about warriors-terrorists in the script, the description in this logline feels sharper and offers more conflict with the protag. It also explains the police without having to get into the detail of freeing the crocs.

I assume Logline #3 is what happens at the end...they reach the little island at the end of Act II and then Act III is the final battle against the crocs (or against Angry Mama Croc) while they wait to be rescued, right?

If the logline mentions that these people are the ones who released the crocs into the river, then it raises the wrong kind of questions. Even in the script, were they not planning to travel by river to leave the area?

"Thousands" of crocs feels implausible and makes me think the group has better chances hiking through the jungle. Even hundreds do...why does a farm have so many? Is it better to have a more manageable number, like dozens?


It does sound implausible, though one such farm's website claims to have had 9,000 crocs housed there in a sort of caged swamp (15,000 at its peak). But, that being said, dozens is asking less from the audience in terms of suspending disbelief.

You're right, their actions already show a level of extremism, especially if innocent people are put at risk. The line about pathogens came straight out of a booked called 'Confessions of an Eco-Warrior' - Google has a sample of it online, just by the by.

Your re-write of the logline does paint the same picture in terms of setting, but is much sharper and does offer more conflict for the protag. I learned a really good lesson there, thanks. It also means the story could be transplanted to anywhere in the world with a crocodile population - and there's nothing wrong with that.

And yeah, Logline #3 is what happens in Act 3. You know that scene in The Hunger Games where they are on the floating pontoon all running around battling each other? I see it like that with crocodiles.

Fun story, my dad took us fishing on one of these rivers when my siblings and I were kids, and on the way back the tide got too low for the boat motor, the low tide also created an archipelago of sandbars in the middle of the river. Well, my dad had to get out of the boat to drag it through the shallow spots to the next patch of deep water. Scary AF.

Another time my Aboriginal grandma took us out into the middle of a river to dig for mussels at low tide. I wasn't afraid because I just trusted - possibly naively - that she had traditional knowledge. Aboriginal people knew when it was safe to enter the rivers. My half-man is inspired by her, and among all the chaos of the BGCI (probably in this section) the survivors of the group come across her standing in the middle of the river. She'll also offer a new perspective on the argument about caring for animals and the planet.

Again, I appreciate your feedback and time.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
RobbRoss
Liger


Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 1469

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #50082

You're welcome. It's actually rare for a writer to end a thread with a clear story that most of us like. Good luck!


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Caden Pearson
Cat


Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #50105

Thanks for your help. I like where the story ended up. Unfortunately, i didn't make it into the horror development workshop with this idea. There's probably been too many crocodile horrors made in Australia lol

I'm going to post a new thread with a horror concept similar to the original logline that started this threat.

I look forward to discussion Smile


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Save the Cat Community Forum Index » Loglines & Beat Sheets All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


© 2007-2008 Informe.com. Get Free Forum Hosting
Powered by phpBB © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
 :: 
Theme created by phpBBStyles.com | Themes Database