What is your process of writing?

coldblackice · Cub Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 8

Can you give a basic outline of your process of writing? Maybe even bullet-pointed?

For example, something like

-Keep a moleskin notebook, writing down 1-2 line story ideas throughout the day
-In the morning, I sit down and take a story idea, and then force myself to write 1-2 pages of free-flow writing, trying to take the story somewhere
-In that writing process, I imagine X character doing Y while Z... etc

I'm able to come up with a lot of story ideas, but I just have the hardest time knowing where to go from there. I sit down and try to flesh a seemingly great story out, but it's just like my mind is stunted in its power of creation.

What is your process? And if possible, please be specific on your approach in the actual writing/creation process -- what steps and methods you use to flesh out an idea.

Thanks!

Joseph · Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject:

quade · Last edited by quade on Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

Joseph · Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:37 am Post subject:

Something else you can do is to form the basic idea (the protagonist conjoined to the antagonist) before constructing the logline to each one.

Example of a basic idea found in chapter 3 of Save the Cat - the 4th exercise:

A guy gets a talking car

Example logline for this idea:

A thrill-seeking teenager celebrates passing his driving test by breaking in a used car that is particular about who sits in the driving seat.

If you can do that with all of your ideas it would be a step forward to fleshing them out.

writingmama · Huggy Cat Joined: 13 Aug 2008 Posts: 2501

Great advice, Paul and Joseph!

Paul, thanks for the Charles Bukowski link, too!

Codeblackice, hope you can use this advice to write something amazing!

Thanks Awesome Cats!

Happy Writing!

Hugs

Rachel T. · Ocelot Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 1917 Location: Michigan

My reply goes with your other topic, about loving or hating the actual writing process.

I LOVE writing stories. I get a tingle whenever I come up with a new idea, I thrill at the following months whenever I get a tidbit of new information I can stick to it, I salivate when I get an idea of characters and how they'll get woven into the story. I have only the vaguest idea where it's all going to end up, and the possibilities spread out before me like a magical glistening adventure... my heart's racing now, just thinking about it.

But I hate re-writes. I loathe, despise, and detest them. I think because I have a hard time knowing what to keep, what to toss, and how to make it better. However good (or poor) I am at diagnosing another writer's troubles, I'm so close to my own that I can't let go of the details. Ah well. I may have discovered a way around that which will work for me.

And that's part of my point. I know you're still in the search for what works for you, because you're asking what works for other people (I do it too), just rest assured that you will find something that will probably look like a hybrid of other peoples' methods. So, from me, this is what I offer:

You say you've got lots of ideas that excite you, but the writing part is boring. My guess is you're trying to pound them into submission. Stop. Take Quade's suggestion and write out loglines for everything you have, and then focus on the ones about which you are both a) most excited, and b) clearest on the story. I've done this with my own. I have lots of great ideas, but for many of them, I just don't have the angle yet, or I don't have the time or inclination to do the exhaustive research I'll need. Some of this is also instinct - you may know more about this or that story than you think.

Second step, give it time. Do you garden? Some seeds take a few days to germinate (crack open and start to grow). Some take a few weeks. Some only take a few hours. And every type is different. Stories are the same. If a couple ideas jump out at you, give yourself time to noodle around with them - take that germ of an idea and hold it up, turn it this way and that. What angle do you want to use to tell it? Movie or book, male or female lead? action? drama? comedy? Think in general terms right now, and just try to get a feel for it. It's like music: some things just feel right and sound good, while other things don't. Don't overthink it, and don't force it. If you hit a wall, put it away. You'll know you're on the right track when your characters start giving you little scenes already put together, running through your mind like you're watching tv. (At least, mine always do.)

Third, put your noodles down on paper. You're not writing a draft to please anybody, and you're not even writing a real draft at this point. You're just writing down those little scenes, and bits of scenes in some cases, getting a feel for what kind of vocabulary they use, how much description is called for, and tolerated. (If your characters yell at you for getting them wrong, you're on the right track, here!) I like to use pen and paper at this point - scribbling things out, drawing lines and arrows, writing in the margins, that's all part of the creative process for me, and it's often essential for me to see what I may have crossed out. (On the computer, when it's gone, it's gone.)

Fourth - by the time you've got, oh, let's say thirty pages or so of mad scribbles, you'll have an idea of what research you'll need to do, if any. Go do it. Don't censor yourself too much, even in this area. You'll get a feel for what information is a must, but let yourself dive into the esoterica, too. Those little random bits that stick out to you are what's going to make your idea stick out to others.

Fifth - give it a rest. Yup. 'Nother break. Let it all compost and ferment in your brain. Your characters are probably talking up a storm by now! Give them time to swirl and settle on a course of action.

Six - now, and only now, may you write a real rough draft, in both senses of the phrase. I like to do this on the computer, as typing allows me to just go. Don't stop to edit. Do one horrible, messy, unplotted draft if you can stand to, transcribing any scribbled scenes that still fit, ignoring any that don't, plotting on the fly. I did this with my last project and it was glorious! Okay, the actual draft is crap, but the thrill of writing on the fly was exciting!

Seventh - well, here's where I'm still learning what works for me...

How do you edit?? Very Happy

_________________
Don't be afraid to admit that inside you is a seething, fiery core of ambition and lust for success that would appall Napoleon.
-Russell Galen

coldblackice · Cub Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 8

Fantastic replies! Thanks so much, all. I'm personally sticking these for quick referring back to.

What kind of checkpoints do you have to know that you're making progress? I've realized that that's perhaps my biggest problem, which I don't have with programming. In programming, there are absolute checkpoints where you know you've definitely completed a step, and that it's undeniably "right" -- it works, and it takes you to the next hurdle to work out.

With stories, however, with it being so subjective and with so many possibilities, it's hard to get feedback to know if you've done something right. And with the infinite branches of choice at every fork in the road of choice, my mind gets overwhelmed on wondering which path is the best one? If the character can go left, right, or straight, each path resulting in its own further branching of choices and plot, how do you decide which one to pick?

I realize that this is a big part of what free-writing is for: fleshing out all manner of ideas and possibilities. And of course, realizing that every writer has their own process, do you guys/gals go from the ending and work backward? Perhaps that would be a helpful, guiding light, in knowing where the character eventually needs to be/do/learn.

Thoughts on the above?

Joseph · Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject:

Coldblackice, please don't think I am being rude by saying this, but it's the third time I've thought it since reading your posts. You ask such silly questions. "What kind of checkpoints do you have to know that you're making progress?" is a silly question. Judging by your posts I'd say you have no experience with creative writing at all. My advice to you is, don't let anyone tell you how to write, and definitely don't seek advice from anyone on how to write. Just write, and keep on writing, and learn from your experiences with it, and if you get stuck and you feel you can't go on, persevere. That's the writing process that you can't seem to comprehend. You're confusing it with a process you can follow in a manual, like programming. Writing is nothing like programming. It is a creative process, which means it can't be controlled. It needs to flow freely from you, and I can only think that you're not allowing that to happen. It is no wonder you hate the writing process. You're trying to contain it, and it's giving you a devil of a time.

There are no checkpoints in writing. You don't follow a process. You just get on with it, and you know whether or not you're making progress. If you want to brainstorm with other writers, that's great! If other writers influence you, that's fine! But don't think that writing is as linear as programming because it isn't. It branches off in every conceivable direction, and you need to open yourself up to that.

Don't ask how. It's like faith. You give yourself to it.

Rachel T. · Ocelot Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 1917 Location: Michigan

In a certain sense, I agree with Joesph, but having been where you are myself, I can understand how that feels like a total non-answer. So I'll try to give you the answer that was given to me, with an example that will hopefully illustrate how you figure it out.

Mike Rinaldi · Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:04 pm Post subject:

Part of writing a successful movie is to emotionally engage the audience. For the audience to be emotionally invested in a story, the writer must be emotionally invested in his story.

When you are emotionally invested during the writing process, you'll know when a scene, plot point, or character satisfies you. That satisfaction is your checkpoint.

If you're not emotionally invested in your story, why are you writing it?

_________________
The Slusho's gone? Why is all the Slusho gone?

orangepink · Cougar Joined: 29 Jun 2011 Posts: 52 Location: The Strip

SaveTheFish · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:45 am Post subject:

As said better than others, there is no step by step process.

I feel that some people in this thread and forum are a little harsh about some of their replies but I know they mean well, even if their answers feel overly ambigious.

The Save the cat book - which is why most of us are here -almost promotes a step by step philosophy, so I u see no wrong in his expectations of something similar with the writing process. However, much like blake snyders beat sheet, things will overlap and blend from beat to beat. There is a reason why there is no 'Page 30 = cataylist', things vary from story to stoy.

This is how I would look at it.

1. Get the Save the Cat software, and thats not a selling plug. It perfectly reflects the hugely messy 'process' of writing, yet puts you at ease because its all in one place, one nice tidy file. I't helps me sleep at night
You can drag and drop files, pictures that helped trigger your ideas, move things around. I hate technology but before using the software I would have around 4 note books with dialouge ideas, scene cards I had cut out so I could move them around. When it came to writing, it gave me a headache. I had so much material to throw in but I couldn't remember if that thing I wrote was in paragraph 12 on page 2 in notebook 3.

2. Forget all this talk of the logline, for now. I think they are dumb, they are there to intice a potential buyer or reader and help them grasp the story in as few words as possible. They are deliberatlely vague though because of this (and rightfully so) and do not help you take the concept to its next level.
I personally wouldn't worry about nailing a good one till at least half way through your first draft. The fact the Save the Cat software doesn't allow you to start writing out the beats before the logline is done makes me laugh every time as I type in 'djkdjkweljdwkdjk' into the logline box.

3. Fleshing it out. Yes, some writers hate the term 'flesh it out' because it makes it seem insincere. Like you are stretching it out beyond its welcome, but hey, how much fun would we have reading loglines for entertainment? None.

Think about what you really want to say, are you an opinionated person? Have you ever been told to shut up, or that you think about things too much. That your opinion or outlook is controversial or stupid, unwelcome? That you should just accept things for what they are? Well guess what, as much as people seem to HATE these people in real life. They make for the best protagonist's out there!

If Neo in the Matrix wasn't looking for something more he would have never have come to find the truth.

If John, in Minority Report just ignored Agathas vision and accepted it. If Cobb agreed with Arthur that Inception couldn't be done, Christopher Nolan wouldn't have made Warner Brothers £800,000,000. Forget the story at this point, think about something that ties in nicely with your idea, something that you are passionate about and proceed to subtly force that down people's necks through various subtext.
Which leads me to my next all important point...

4. Become emotionally invested. As said before you have to become emontionally invested in the characters that are involved in the story. You have to like them, love them. There will be characters that you hate, but respect. A Character that you wouldn't give the time of day to in real life, so you might end up hating writing them. Just as much as you hate talking to them in real life. Maybe thats why that character is in there, perhaps when other characters interact with that character, that 'dislike' is slightly reflected in the subtext. For me, I throw characters in I dislike in real life because - to use a trope term - its a lampshade.

Imagine you have started writing a draft, you have come as far as the Catalyst and given up. You have left your characters in limbo! These characters you love are just sitting there, waiting for you to tell them what to do next. How will I solve my problem?. Infact, the best characters are NOT waiting for you to write what to do next, they know what to do next. They are waiting for you to play god; to start chucking icebergs in their path.

5. I have a love for philosophy, idea's such as Platos Cave , Brain in a Vat and Schrödinger's cat really interest me. I remember a friend of mine getting bored after only a few minutes into a conversation in which I brought them up. I was eventualy told to shut up. That exact friend, a fews years later, bought a ticket to see The Matrix. He lists it now, as one of his favorite films of all time, along with Minority Report. It's strange in what ways people will listen to ideas. Think about that.

6. Themes will happen naturally. Moving on to a less agressive note, I also remember having a conversation with my Mother about Aliens. She is quite religious and hates the idea of Aliens, as it depicts God as fictional. Have you ever seen the movie Signs? A retired priest's faith is restored during an alien invasion. I doubt M Night had the same conversation with his mother, or as some of people here may make you believe - sat down and came up with this idea whilst looking for the logline for his alien invasion movie. It is much more likely that he originally had the protagonist as a second hand shoe salesman, and over his first draft, realised the Aliens vs Religion theme was a common theme that you can't ignore when dealing with aliens and changed him to a priest. Then given that a story needs conflict, killed his wife and made him an ex-priest -Thus giving him an all important arc.

6. Have Fun. With a few ideas floating about in how to flesh out my Main idea, I usually do fun things. Such as taking a summary of a movie I like and changing things around, such as names, gender, family members and situations.

lets take Man on Fire...

Creasy (a former assassin) is haunted by the death of his family. He starts a new life in mexico with an old friend, Rayburn. He takes on a new job as bodyguard for a young girl. He continue's to battle with his loss untill the young girl - pita- is kidnapped. Who took her?

Now, thats from an action film. However, I am writing a horror screenplay but thats not to say I can't use it. That same structure could be changed to..

Chris (a former bus driver) is haunted by the deaths of 12 school childern following a crash. He starts a new life in Wales with his fiance Rachel. He takes on a new job as a janitor for a school. As he continue's to battle with his loss untill a young boy- Peter - goes missing. Who took him?

This presents an interesting connection, one that is accidental. One that could be 'Fleshed out'.

Chris feel's guilty for the accident. Perhaps he has never recovered from the incident, unable to live with himself he had to find a new job.
A janitor job is all he could get. Perhaps that causes conflict with his wife, she doesn't like the new job. Maybe she wants a child of her own but
Chris is not ready as he feel's he does not deserve kids of his own. Once this child goes missing, chris might feel the need for redemption.That if he could find, save, one life he might be able to forgive himself.

Perhaps Chris is under scrutiny himself, as a teacher who is informed of his dark past has dubbed him 'the child killer'. Hell, chances are we won't find out who the antagonist is for a while so this teacher can fill those shoes for now.

Naturally, from that, themes of trust, responsibilityand redemption grow. Ghosts, in either the metaphorical, physical or metaphisical sense. Exploring these themes gives me a better idea of what I can add, what I can say, what needs to be said. A few ghost scenes come to mind, one taking place in an empty school as the janitor works late.

Come to mention it, who notices a janitor? He could have died on that school bus with them. Come to mention it, the children have been sharing tales of a ghostly man that lurks the school halls...

7. Messy draft Open the STC software again and start plotting out the beats. However, NOT like you read in the Save the Cat book. They are tidy, concise and again, too ambigious for what you need to do. Get messy. Write the opening beat. Get a sudden idea for something that happens during this? Write it. A sudden line of dialouge jumps into your head; don't even have it in the context of a conversation yet but you know it needs to be said? Write it anyway. When you read the whole thing back it won't make a whole bunch of sense BUT it will make sense, chronologically. From that you can tidy it up.

Overall its about becoming a Polymath, having various opinions on various subjects, passions, ideas and ideals. You have to have alot to say, not just story ideas. Hollywood and alot of people will say 'it's the characters that matter', thats what stay's with you. Whilst its true for the most part and I think it's 100% essential that the audience becomes emotionally invested. I't doesn't always work, I'm a huge fan of love storys but I don't give a crap about Trinity and Neo's love story and the Shutter Island's love story eats up far too much of the film. Its like...I care about the protagonist, you can fuc***g stop reminding me about his dead wife.

I think what they actually mean is the connection the character has to the story. I am going to wack a lampshade on this, something slightly cheesy happens in hollywood all the time and that is COINCIDENCE. Whenever asking themselves the questions 'Why this character? Why now? what does he/she desire?' It seems they always decide on the prospect that 'this is the only person for the job' and this is the only time, or worse time it could happen. The perfect coincidence. It happens everywhere, sometimes driven to stupidity. Such as that old action film cliche...only '10 days to retirement' and then something happens.

Here are some examples:

Inception - His lover died thinking she was in this VERY world they need to infliltrate.
Minority Report - Tom Cruise was the ONLY one who saw agatha's prevision AND the one with the darkest past AND this all happens JUST AS pre-crime is about to go global. This happens wilst the firm is under investigation. His dead son loved to run! This is put there only to serve as a foreshadow to the word RUN being said a thousand times in the movie.

The Village Ivy's boyfriend is the first one to become a victim of a physical attack in the village, IVY's dad happens to be able to pull alot of strings in this society and allows his daugher to leave the village...good job she is blind otherwise she would give awaythe bigger truth.
Taken Ex Navy seal's daugher is kidnapped. Need I say more.
The Sixth sense Counsellor is shot by a man who has seen dead people from an early age, and didn't help. Just after winning an award. He comes into a boy's life who has the same problem. Awh Smile

Stir of echo's Guy who wishes he was something more in life, has a wife who's best friend is some form of casual witch, this opens up his mind to seeing ghosts...like the one of the girl who is buried in the basement...by the hand of the family who live 5 doors down. His son also has an ability to see ghosts.
Terminator - The paradox

It could be seen as corny, but it WORKS because by doing this you automatically have the chatacters conflict and emotional involvement good to go. There is less explaining to do. A whole lot less than you would have to do if this was just happening to Mr.Avarage Joe on a monday. It needs to happen to Mr. Saturday who invented Saturday's on a Saturday.

Joseph · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:57 am Post subject:

SaveTheFish

I don't entirely disagree with some of your thinking and opinions, and despite the fact that I'm not an impassioned advocate of the Blake Snyder train of thought, I am an advocate to some degree, and in his defence I feel the need to point out that I strongly suspect you have missed the point of his approach to screenwriting.

I enjoyed reading your post. The reason I am not a whole-hearted Blake Snyder advocate is because I believe ideas should be challenged, especially when they are absorbed into the mainstream and become dogmatic, as is usually the case with mainstream thinking. But by the time I reached "Themes will happen naturally", I started feeling for the man. All that good work merely to have it rubbished! He expected that, of course, and you should expect his disciples to attempt to right what is wrong in your thinking. I'm not one of them. But I fear they are coming.

I just want to say that Blake Snyder had story structure down to a tittle, and the reason he asks you to follow a certain process is so that you avoid making the mistakes so many screenwriters are still making, and also to save you a whole lot of precious time, unless, of course, you enjoy writing without knowing where your story is going. To suggest that you can make up a theme midway through your script and direct your characters apropos to the current action is misleading, to say the least. If you don't want chaos and/or disorder, you would be wise to prepare before beginning. That's not being dogmatic, by the way. It's a law of nature. Every single thing created exists because certain elements come together that help its creation. If those elements are mixed with other elements, it's likely that a created thing will not exist harmoniously; and there are many screenplays that have been made into films that do not exist harmoniously because they were not put together with careful thought: Signs is one of them.

Other than that, give 'em hell!

SaveTheFish · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject:

I meant in no way to offend Blake's work, I wouldn't be believing in myself - that I could do it too- if it wasn't for reading his books. For me, it was never about taking his methods too literal but making the writing world feel smaller.

Seeing the similarities between genres, structure and pacing within movies was, for me, uplifting and made me feel part of the loop. It wasnt so scary anymore. It even made me enjoy movies much, much more. Some things are brilliantly vauge, like a 'Monter in a house' story needs a house. He is by no means saying sit there and think of what that house could be, but to identify the potential 'house' of your story. Be it an island, a town or a restriction set by the protagonist, something that the audience won't even notice, only feel. I loved the way it made me think about the ideas I already had.

In my 'themes happen naturally' section I never suggested not to consider them till midway through your script. That would be much too late. I only suggested not to worry about them till midway through your scribbles, the plotting of your beats, your notes. It's all about pushing foward and making things less clinical. When reading up on screenwriting and reading people's advice it can sometimes seem overly profound. When you are still trying to flesh out an idea, that attitude is somewhat unhelpful. I find the more I think about an idea, by the time I come to looking at a 'checklist', I already have the criteria. Looking at the checklist, for me, never triggers any ideas of any kind and feels artifical till much later on in the process. Again, not suggesting that logic was Blakes intention.

I have never sat down and thought about themes. The theme or themes in relation to my idea always seem to just happen naturally when following a train of thought. It suddenly feels right, it works and everthing fits. I can then go in with fresh eyes, excited by the true story I am telling behind it all. I always have an idea about the ending but it is not 100% set in stone.

In regards to Blake's methods becoming dogmatic, It is interesting.

A friend of mine works as a writer for a video game development team. He use's Blake's beat sheet but repeats the 'Break into two', 'Bad guys closing' in and 'All is lost' beats a few times as a video game story has a longer duration. Simply spreading the beats out longer does not cut the mustard. I feel that is an interesting evolution of Blake's teachings, he is using those beats in a new way that better suits a different medium.

On an unrelated note, I highly recommend Stephen King's book/audio book 'On Writing'. His writing philosophy is almost a complete contradiction to Blake's but its interesting none the less.

Rachel T. · Ocelot Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 1917 Location: Michigan

Very few people on this website follow Blake's methods to a T more than a few times. And I think he was okay with that. Speaking for myself I follow his methods more strictly where it applies to my weaknesses, but in areas where I am strong, I play around a little. That's okay too. Very Happy

_________________
Don't be afraid to admit that inside you is a seething, fiery core of ambition and lust for success that would appall Napoleon.
-Russell Galen

	Save the Cat Community Forum Index » Save the Cat	All times are GMT - 5 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2